Google Play’s global streaming lead Peter Asbill talks curation, Apple Music and why wannabe playlisters must ‘check their ego at the door’
“We make curators take the Susan Boyle test. We ask these people – and remember, these are music geeks, they’re really seriously into music – to please put together a playlist that features Susan Boyle, that you think a Susan Boyle fan would love. If they can’t do that …”
You can add another layer to the legend of Google job interviews, although the SuBo test is entirely serious. If the thought of such a task appals you, chances are you won’t be getting a job on the playlist team at the company’s streaming service, Google Play Music.
“It’s about getting people to check their ego at the door,” continues Peter Asbill, whose official job title is global streaming lead, Google Play, but could unofficially be summarised as “playlist boss”.
“Susan Boyle has no street cred with cool music people, or so you would think. But if they can’t understand Susan Boyle, why she appeals to people and what they’re interested in, they’re not going to be a successful curator for us.”
Playlists are a hot topic in the music-streaming world, with Google Play far from alone in building an in-house team to create them. Apple Music and Spotify are both putting playlists to the forefront of their services, as are rivals.
Meanwhile, each of the three major labels has their own playlist-creation team, while independent labels are gathering together to create a playlist brand too. All have the same aim: to use playlists as an accessible way in to the 30m+ songs currently available to stream.
Asbill is a veteran in this area: he joined Google in July 2014 when it bought his previous company Songza, which was one of the first streaming services to focus on playlists themed by mood, activity and time of day, with a feature called Concierge designed to serve them up at the right moment.
Since Google bought Songza, Concierge has been integrated into the company’s own service Google Play Music, providing a direct equivalent to Spotify’s “Now” feature and Apple Music’s “For You”. It’s a battle to not just have the best playlists, but to recommend them at exactly the right moment.
“We all have this belief that music makes every moment better, so we’re obsessed with someone tapping the app, opening it up, and being served the perfect soundtrack,” says Asbill.
There are bragging rights here: Apple executive Jimmy Iovine – who joined that company when it bought his company Beats – has publicly derided rivals as “utilities” in comparison to Apple’s emphasis on human curation. Mention of which elicits a raised eyebrow from Asbill.
“We’re all very grateful to Jimmy for inventing curation,” he says, with amused sarcasm. “We knew all the people at Beats really well, and we saw a lot of what they were doing as pulling stuff from Songza. Now a lot of people have turned in this direction of trying to incorporate human curation in what they do.”
If everyone’s hiring in teams of music geeks, getting them to make themed playlists and then developing ever-more clever algorithms to recommend those playlists to listeners, how can any of these services stand out? Asbill thinks anti-snobbery what will differentiate Google Play Music.
“We’re very much focused on providing the perfect music for your context. We are very different to the other services: we want to have the best soundtrack for that moment, and we’re constantly evaluating the performance of playlists along those lines,” he says.
“We’re not about educating people about music: we’re not teaching people about what’s super-cool, or about ‘the canon’. We’re trying to give them the perfect soundtrack for their moment, not trying to force people to discover new things.”
Hence the SuBo test, which he says screens out people who may be more enamoured with their own musical mavenness than with the challenge of thinking themselves into the musical moments of more mainstream listeners.
“I don’t want them to just do the cliche big hits, but I don’t want them to be the kind of DJ who’s out to teach everyone at the club what music is cool and what music is not cool. That’s the worst kind of DJ! You want to dance, and they’re trying to teach you a lesson,” says Asbill.
“We want people to play to an audience, ensure people are having an amazing time, and being exposed to things in the right context that they’re really open to. For the playlist curator, it has to be ego-less. They have to bring their good taste to bear on each playlist, but it’s about striking a balance.”
Asbill says that the people coming up with these playlists are “a motley group of strange, interesting, wonderful, weird people”, and some of the playlists certainly reflect that.
Sad Girl Pop is “a playlist of sad songs from the saddest girls in pop”; Lying In Lakes is “the music that would be playing if you swim out to the middle of a like and lie on your back”; while Tea & Drake is “the soundtrack you would play if you were sitting down for a cup of tea with Drake” whose descriptive text is worth reading in full:
“Drake pours a cup of Earl Grey for you. You hold the cup close, blow aside the rising steam. “How did it come to this?” He nods. He struggles with the same demons. At least there is this: tea and Drake, a chance to collect yourself before taking on the night.”
“We want people to be creative, and to bring a sense of humour and a sense of joy to the process of curating music,” says Asbill. “But the playlist doesn’t matter at all unless we deliver it to the right people at the right moment.”
Enter the algorithms. Like Spotify and even Apple Music, recommendation algorithms are hugely important to Google Play Music: they are what [in theory] ensures those lovingly-human-curated playlists find their perfect audiences. Google, needless to say, knows a thing or two about recommendation algorithms.
“We think human curation is important, and the reason we think it’s important, by the way, is because Google is such a data-driven company, and we’ve seen that it’s effective,” says Asbill.
“I’m the first to admit that we are one piece of a much bigger picture here though: it’s about a marriage between human curation and incredibly-sophisticated recommendation technology. The people that work our recommendation engine are a great combination of brilliant technical minds and music lovers.”
That combination, he hopes, will help Google Play Music hold its own against rivals, even if gauging that success will require Google to say publicly how many subscribers it has – something it has not done thus far. But Asbill says he’s focused on the delivery.
“In the future, you shouldn’t have to search or browse for music: the right music should find you. You’re not going out and looking for it, it should find you,” he says.
“That is everything we’re looking at building. We want to make sure every playlist we build is successful, but we have to serve it to the right person at the right time.”
Including Susan Boyle fans. A couple of weeks after I interview Asbill, I send him my own attempt to pass the test: a 15-song playlist that you can listen to on Google Play or Spotify if you’re curious.
It blends SuBo with pop-classical covers [Paul Potts does November Rain, Aled Jones does The Power of Love, Il Divo do My Heart Will Go On]; church-infused tenor tracks [Harry Secombe’s Climb Every Mountain, Alfie Boe’s God Give Me Strength]; plus Jeff Buckley’s Hallelujah and Antony and the Johnsons’ Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door as leftfield picks.
Do I pass the test? I’m praised for “a pretty good first attempt” that “gets who SuBo is and who she’s aimed at”, but am warned by Asbill and colleagues Dan Gennoe and Rory Woodbridge in a follow-up email that it’s maybe too focused on operatic pop crossover acts
“I’d probably suggest mixing it up a bit by adding some straight easy pop, something like Adele, Emeli Sandé or Leona Lewis, which would also make it feel a bit more contemporary,” they say, adding that the likes of Neil Diamond, Elvis and Elton John might fit in smoothly.
Antony and the Johnsons get the boot – “for a SuBo fan, they might be a step too far” – while Paul Potts’s cover of Guns N’ Roses’ November Rain is also jettisoned.
“No one wants an over-the-top operatic version of a Guns N’ Roses song while they’re unwinding at home after a long day at work or reading the paper, which would be two situations that I’d think this playlist would be good for,” they explain.
The main problem is that the playlist is too short. “It needs to be at least three-and-a-half hours long and a minimum of 50 tracks,” explain the Googlers.
“If we took the list as is – minus Potts and Antony – and added tracks by acts similar to the ones I’ve mentioned, it could be a good Unwinding, Relaxing at Home or Reading the Paper playlist.”
I’ll keep the day job, then, but it’s a good insight into the process of crafting these kinds of playlists. Perhaps I’ll send the improved version to Jimmy Iovine, along with my CV ...
• Spotify has six years of my music data, but does it understand me?
• Is Apple Music worth paying for? Three-month review
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Topics
- Digital media
- Alphabet
- Spotify
- Apple Music
- Susan Boyle
- features
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